- MESSAGE MENU #1
MESSAGE MENU #2
- OVERLOOKING THE SOURCE OF OUR STRENGTH AND SALVATION
- FALSE PROPHETS OR SERVANTS OF YAHWEH?
- BOOK OF MATTHEW WRITTEN IN HEBREW OR IN GREEK?
- CONCERNING BABYLON AND CURRENT EVENTS
- THE FIRSTFRUITS OF YAHWEH/YAHWSHUA
- WHAT DID YAHWSHUA MEAN WHEN HE SAID "TOUCH ME NOT"?
- WHERE WAS YAHWEH'S SHEKINAH GLORY AT THE TIME OF YAWHSHUA?
- THE WAVE-SHEAF CEREMONY
MESSAGE MENU #3
- THE FIRST VISIBLE LUNAR CRESCENT
- TITHING CHART BASED ON WEEKLY INCOME
- HOW TO TITHE BASED ON YOUR ANNUAL SALARY
- MAP OF ANCIENT KHAZARIA
- MAP OF EPHRAYIM AND MANNASAH, ACCORDING TO THE ANGLO-SAXONS
- THE NEW COVENANT IS CONDITIONAL
- BARACK OBAMA: A PROPHET OF ISLAM
- TIMELINE CHART OF YAHSHUA'S DEATH AND RESURRECTION
- THE SACRED NAMES IN ANCIENT PALEO-HEBREW
- ZECHARYAH 12:9
- THE 24 ELDERS ARE ALREADY IN THRONES IN HEAVEN
- THE INFAMOUS "AN EYE FOR AN EYE" LAW: ABOLISHED OR IN EFFECT?
- RE LOST TEN TRIBES
THE 24 ELDERS
ARE ALREADY IN THRONES
Shalom dear brethren and called-out sheep of Our Master Yahwshua Ha Mashiach. There is much confusion about the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4, and there is much to be said. For instance, the twenty-four elders of Revelation 4 do not prove a Pre-Tribulation "rapture"!
But many people believe the "rapture" of the true ekklesia/kehila/church is depicted in Revelation 4 because the 24 elders are in heaven. Therefore, they say, all other prophetic events must come AFTER the so-called and alleged "rapture" --- the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, Antichrist, False Prophet, Armageddon, etc.
This is an extremely shallow observation, my beloved. The apostle John is not imagining the things he described in Revelation. The twenty-four elders are ALREADY in Heaven! And the alleged rapture (as of this writing) has not yet taken place!
Therefore, we cannot use this argument to prove that the seven seals, seven trumpets, antichrist, tribulation, et cetera; must happen AFTER any rapture simply because they all follow the fourth chapter of Revelation...but we must not forget that in heaven there is no time and matter like it exists on earth. And sometimes it seems that Yahweh is "shuffling with time"---going back and forth in time to show us different things!
Here is are the disputed texts in point from Revelation 4:
"And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold," verse 4.
"The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne," verse 10.
From all this we reckon that it is NOT necessary for any kind of rapture to have taken place for the 24 elders to be in heaven.
Dearly beloved of mine and of Our Master Yahwshua, the Sacred Scriptures teach that to be absent from the body is to be present with Yahweh (2 Corinthians 5:8), and vice-versa (v. 6). Brethren, believers do not just "die" like the heathen do, they "have a refuge when they die" (Proverbs 14:32), and they "separate from the body" when they die (2 Peter 1:14-15). The 24 elders are saints that obviously have died and thus are "absent from the body" and "separated from the body." Since Yahwshua is NOW at the right hand of the throne in heaven (Hebrews 8:1, Revelation 3:21), then for the departed/separated saints to be with Him, they must also NOW be in heaven, dwelling in heavenly bodies (analyze John 12:26), while their physical bodies remain in their graves ("sheol") on earth!
Two chapters later, in Revelation 6:11; we see martyred "saints in heaven," "under the altar," and asking Yahweh when their blood is going to be avenged. White robes were given to them and they were told to "wait a little while until their brethren should be killed like they were." (Beloved, those are also saints that have died and "separated from their bodies"!)
Therefore, as of Revelation 6, there are still brethren/saints here on the earth. These are faithful believers/saints that have NOT been yet martyred...much less "raptured."
We know that all the ANCIENT saints are in heaven right now waiting for the last generation of true believers and followers to finish their work on earth. They have HEAVENLY bodies and are wearing white robes while their EARTHLY bodies remain in the grave.
In fact, the 24 elders are also in heaven RIGHT NOW, and sitting on thrones before Yahwshua Ha Mashiach, yet no rapture has yet taken place, nor will; and the final seventh trumpet has not yet been blown!
Who are those 24 elders?
Some think they are the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles of Yahwshua... But there may be a much better explanation, although we wont go into much detail of it here. However, there is a physical counterpart of the actual spiritual 24 elders, just like there are spiritual/heavenly counterparts of almost every physical/ earthly thing that Yahweh has designed for His beloved people of true Yisrael.
Let's go to Scriptures for a look. 1 Chronicles 24 gives the specific NAMES of 24 priests, all descendants of Aharon the High Priest, who were established to govern the House of Yahweh in David's time. King David made all the plans for the Temple that his son, Solomon, would build. Along with all the building materials, David furnished the organizational structure according to Moses' teaching.
David called for all the remaining descendants of Aharon the High Priest to come forth and fulfill the role of Chief Priests in the new Temple. (And I remind you that the earthly temple is a physical copy of the original and much better celestial temple.) Aharon had four sons, but two of them died childless (Nadab and Abihu). Of his two other sons, Eleazar and Ithamar, David found two remaining descendants of Aharon that could be certified. They were Zadok of Eleazar, and Ahimelech of Ithamar.
My beloved sheep of Yahwshua, our brother David the king found 16 sons of Zadok and 8 sons of Ahimelech---all totaling TWENTY-FOUR ELDERS. These twenty-four earthly elders were raised up to represent the house of Aharon the High Priest as governors of the earthly sanctuary and house of Yahweh. Their purpose was to re-establish the ministry of the High Priest.
So... when John saw twenty-four elders around the throne in heaven, they actually ARE the twenty-four elders of the Temple priesthood similar to the 24 elders earlier established by David on earth.
However, regardless of who they are, the point of this message is that they are PRESENTLY sitting around the throne of the Lamb Yahwshua Ha Mashiach, and it should be assumed by all of us that they are giving their power and glory and honor to the True High Priest, Yahwshua, who sits before them, just as John said.
Now, my dearly beloved, just how did they get into their places in heaven? I surely can guarantee you that they arrived there WITHOUT the rapture having taken place!
When Yahwshua Ha Mashiach died at the Calvary, the Scriptures teach that He led captivity captive. Our Savior Yahwshua freed the souls of the Tanak (so-called "Old Testament") saints from the grave. He told the thief on the cross, "this day you will be with me in paradise." Since Calvary, all saints go to their promised place of "safety" immediately when they die, as stated and quoted earlier from Proverbs 14:32.
We must know for certain that when saints die, their OLD bodies remain in the grave. And that the old bodies of the saints are not resurrected to their former state.
If we were never intended to come back to earth in spiritual bodies, we would have a need to have our physical bodies resurrected. But since Yahwshua is coming BACK to earth for the final battle (the Battle of Armageddon) and to establish the earthly Millennial Kingdom of peace and righteousness, the spiritual bodies of the brethren who remain alive at His second coming will be resurrected in THAT DAY (1 Tes 4:17-18) and caught up (ἁρπαγησόμεθα, in greek "harpagesometha" meaning "caught-up"---NOT "RAPTURED"!) in the air with Him. He will be met by His Saints in the clouds. That is what Scripture reveals, my dear brothers and sisters! Read your Torah! Torah reveals we will unite with our King and Husband Yahwshua for the Battle of Armageddon, and also the marriage supper of the Lamb, followed by a 1000-year rule and reign with Yahwshua on earth.
But be very very careful to understand the difference between heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. My brethren, every believer has two bodies--- a terrestrial (earthly) one, and a celestial (heavenly) one. Our brother the apostle Shaul/Paul said to that respect in I Corinthians 15: 35-38:
"But some man will say: 'How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?' Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die! And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But Yahweh giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body."
Do you understand, my dear ones? These verses explain that our PRESENT physical bodies are NOT going to be resurrected. Instead, a NEW glorified spiritual body will be raised up at the first resurrection and harpazo, for those who remain alive---that is; because them who are still alive at Yahwshua's second coming will NOT precede those who have died. (I Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 20:4-5)
We don't need our old physical bodies in the kingdom, dear brethren. We are not going to heaven or to enter the kingdom of Yahwshua/Yahweh with our old bodies anyway! Those old flesh and blood bodies will NEVER go there. 1 Corinthians 15:50 says, "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of Yahweh; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
Therefore anyone who dies being a saint/kodesh, first goes to sheol or the grave and "separates" from his physical body---which is the seed planted on the earth that must die first before anything can be born---and then goes to heaven, to "under the altar" or anywhere else Yahweh determines, will have to go in a different body than the one he lived in on this earth! Back to I Corinthians 15:42-44 for more details:
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."
A seed goes INTO the ground in one form. Then it comes OUT of the ground in another form.
My brethren, this principle is true in water baptism/immersion. Water baptism is a type of burial of the old person and a rebirth of the new person in Yahwshua Ha Mashiach. Romans 6:4 says, "Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Mashiach was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
When our OLD BODY is SOWN IN WATER BAPTISM in the name of Yahwshua, the newly engendered heavenly body comes out of the water.
We are "buried with Him in BAPTISM, WHEREIN also ye are RISEN with Him through the faith of the operation of Yahweh, Who hath raised Him from the dead," (Colossians 2:12).
Our heavenly body is first born/created when we are baptized by immersion. The old starts to die, and then the new starts to grow like a tree and to give fruit...or it should. (Yahwshua said we must be BORN of the water and of the Spirit. He also said that if we are NOT born of the water and the Spirit, we cannot see the Kingdom of Yahweh. See John 3:3-5).
That is the only way we can go to our place of safety and eternal rest when we die our first death. The first death is the death of the physical body. We all die this death. In the case of the saints, our old bodies will not be resurrected from the dead. By then, we must have our NEW heavenly bodies formed and ready as soon as we die, "at the twinkling of an eye"! Otherwise, we would be disembodied spirits and could not wear the white robes of Revelation 6!
This may sound like so much gobbledy-gook to some of you, but it is really a very important concept! For if you are never BORN again, you will NOT have your required heavenly body to enter the Kingdom with Yahwshua!
In the process of the new birth, our souls become immortal and incorruptible due to the righteousness bestown upon us by Our Savior Yahwshua, and are "clothed upon" with a heavenly body which is in accord to the works of the faith we made while alive and which are akin to "white robes."
"For we know that if our earthly dwelling of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of Yahweh, an house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our dwelling which is from heaven."
In the end, at the last trumpet; the spiritual bodies of all the dead in Yahwshua Ha Mashiach will have risen incorruptible from their graves, and we which are alive and remain will be "transformed in the twinkling of an eye"---instant death and resurrection!---and "caught up in the air" to meet the Master at His coming. The physical bodies of the ones who remain alive will be changed in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye.
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed," (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). If you want to know when the LAST TRUMP is, please read the message entitled The Seven Trumpets.
Dear ones, our heavenly bodies will composed of a spiritual body that was generated while we were alive in our physical bodies, and then miraculously changed to immortal when we died or were transformed, and we will then be able to attend the Second Coming of Yahwshua Ha Mashiach back to earth at the Battle of Armageddon, and spend the subsequent 1,000 years as immortals on earth.
Once we understand these concepts, there is no remaining "proof" that the 24 elders being in heaven prove that there is any kind rapture taking place before all the other fulfillments of Revelation 5:21...
As for the 24 elders being a "vision" of something not accurate, or of "something in the future" (like when the final trumpet has sounded and we have all been resurrected), this is not so, my dear brethren. If you read Revelation 1 and then Revelation 7, you will know for a fact that the apostle John has not yet died/ been resurrected when he talked to one of the elders in heaven.
"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” I answered, “Sir, you know",” verses 13-14.
My brethren, John was very much alive and still in his original physical body, when he was temporarily taken in spirit to heaven to be a witness for us, then "whisked back" to earth after he saw and talked to the elders so that he could write for us what he saw and heard.
The fact that John had not yet died his first death and talked to the elders in heaven means that there are some people in spiritual bodies in heaven even though the final trumpet has not yet been blown and a general resurrection has not yet occurred. This group (the 24 elders) in their song of praise of Revelation 7 says that they have been "redeemed by the blood of the Lamb" and are present in heaven before the seals are opened or the final trump has sounded.
There's nothing indicating that it is a future scene. It's simply the throne room in Heaven. Later we do get a scene of the same throne room in the future, but this time with many souls standing on it singing the song of Moses and the song of the lamb. This other scene happens after the 7th trumpet and the seven bowl angels are seen parading out to deliver their deadly payload (Rev 15:1-6).
Some people refuse to accept these important facts revealed in Scripture, and try to escape reality and at the same time sound doctrine by suggesting that the 24 elders are angels and not people.
But these are 24 Elder HUMANS, my dear brethren, and not 24 "Elder ANGELS"! Revelation 4:4----"And round about the throne were four and twenty thrones: and upon the thrones I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold." Here's why these cannot be angels but must be human (although glorified men).
- The verse says they are elders ---- and in Scripture the word "elder" has never been applied to angels. This makes sense since angels apparently are all the same age anyway and were created perfect, and knowing what they are suppossed to know from the beginning.This term is used to describe humans in positions of authority, in Israel in the synagogue/assembly of Yahwshua.
- They sit on thrones and wear crowns ---- Again you never will find an angel wearing a crown or destined to rule as the thrones imply. On the other hand we are told throughout Scriptures that the righteous shall inherit and rule the earth, including the twelve apostles sitting on twelve thrones ruling each of the twelve tribes (Luke 22:30).
- White Raiment ---- If they are righteous glorified men in Heaven, this is exactly what they ought to be wearing according to Rev. 19:8 as the clothing of the Bride of Mashiach at the Marriage Supper will be, in addition to many parables of Yahwshua.
My dearly beloved sheep of Yahwshua, we've already established that they are human. But are they really 24 men, or are they representative somehow of all of the righteous who had died up to this point and taken up to their "place of safety" in heaven?
Well, the problem with that idea is that Scripture apparently teaches that people do not go to heaven immediately when they die, but that they must wait until later to "rise", that is, to be resurrected. Even the righteous prophet Daniel was told he would sleep in the grave from which he would only rise at the end of the age to receive his reward:
Daniel 12:13: "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance." When are these times of rising? Scripture teaches three:
Let's move to 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 to review them quickly. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Messiah shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:
1) Messiah / the firstfruits; 2) afterward they that are Messiah's, at His coming. 3) Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to Yahweh, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
Notice there is the obvious resurrection/harpazo of the righteous at Mashiach's coming that all of us today hope to be part of, as well as the one at "the end" that Revelation 20:5 and Ezekiel 37 speak of, as when the rest of the (unholy) dead are raised. However what we often gloss over is the the fact that at Mashiach's resurrection there were also "firstfruits"---plural.
Who are "the firstfruits"?
These firstfruits were pictured and predicted from very early times in the Torah/Law by the "Feast of the Firstfruits" rehearsal done each year on the morrow after Passover by a wave sheaf of barley being waved to Yahweh by the High Priest:
Leviticus 23:10-11 says: "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. He is to wave the sheaf before YAHWEH so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the morning after the Shabbat.
And we find that just as Yahwshua was raised on that day, so were several Firstfruit saints! Read Matthew 27:50-53:
"Yahwshua, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the spirit. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept, arose, and came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."
Now, why were the graves of the resurrected opened? They were opened as a witness of their resurrection so that people would believe those were the saints that were being resurrected by the fulfilled sacrifice of Yahwshua on the cross. In the same way we could ask, why was there an earthquake? To show people that Yahweh's miraculous and powerful hand was present in all those events, and they would believe!
Notice that although the graves were opened at the moment that the earthquake of Yahwshua's death happened, the saints did not wake up from their "sleep" (the same "rest" that Daniel still is in) and emerge, until after Yahwshua's resurrection. As it happens, in Jewish tradition, the wave sheaf was first marked on the night of Passover---that coincides very well when the firstfruits were first protected from death by the blood of the lamb Yahwshua on the first Passover---before the sheaf was cut and waved on Firstfruits offering the following morning. So if all those who had their graves marked were then visited during those three days He was in the grave and then resurrected with Our Savior Yahwshua, then it would perfectly fulfill the Torah rehearsals as they were performed.
And it would give us a reasonable answer as for who part of the 24 elders in Heaven are. They are the glorified humans, saints who were raised in the "First of the Firstfruits" resurrection of the Messiah! The rest of them are the 12 apostles which died and were resurrected later. The 24 priests descendants of Aharon were the copy and shadow of what is in heaven.
Exodus 25:9 says: "Make this tabernacle and all its furnishings exactly like the pattern I will show you." Hebrews 8:5 adds, "They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven." This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." (Exodus 25:40)
Everything in the earthly tabernacle was patterned after the preexisting heavenly Temple., including the 24 priests/elders!
Daniel’s vision of the "Ancient of Days" mentions “thrones” which “were put in place” prior to a court being seated (Dan. Dan. 7:9-19). The court’s judgment results in the destruction of the Beast and the removal of the dominion of the other beasts (Dan. 7:12). This is the “judgment . . . made in favor of the saints of the Most High” when “the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom” spoken of in Daniel 7:22. The saints of the end-times will be given into the hands of the beast for “a time and times and half a time” (Dan. 7:25; 9:27; 12:7; 11:2-3, 13:5) but the court shall be seated and “take away his dominion, to consume and destroy it forever” (Dan. 7:26).
The only other mention of thrones (plural) in this book are those occupied by saints who take part in the first resurrection and rule and reign during the Millennium with Yahwshua (Rev. 20:4). These elders comprise the court which will be seated and rule against the Beast bringing about his eventual overthrow and ushering in the Millennial Kingdom (Rev. 19:1, Rev. 20:1). The apostle Shaul/Paul revealed that saints would be entrusted with the judgment of such weighty matters. “Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? . . . Do you not know that we shall judge angels?” (1 Cor. 6:2-3). That is one of the things that the 24 elders also do! They judge the world!
Various lines of evidence suggest they represent the redeemed of the present age of the Kehila/Assembly. The Torah description seems to point to believers of this present "church age." They are already in heaven (Rev. Rev. 4:1 and 5:1) before the opening of the seal judgments (Rev. 6:1). They are sitting on thrones before Yahweh (Rev. 4:4). Beloved, in Scripture, angels never sit in the presence of Yahweh. However, Yahwshua promised Kehilah-age believers that they would sit with Him on His throne (Rev. 3:21) . Yahweh positionally has made all believers today sit together in the heavenly places in Mashiach (Eph. 2:6).
Take note also that the elders are clothed in white robes (Rev. 4:4). Church-age believers are promised such pure clothing (Rev. 3:5, 18 and Rev. 19:7-8). The elders have crowns of gold on their heads (Rev. 4:4). Believers in the Assembly/Kehilah are promised such crowns (Rev. 2:10; Rev. 3:11). In the Epistles, believers are also promised crowns for spiritual accomplishments (1 Cor. 9:25; 1Th. 2:19; 2 Ti. 4:8; Jas. 1:12; 1 Pe. 5:4).
My beloved, these are not "just mere coincidences"! Holy angels do not wear crowns, but believers can and will wear them. . . . The elders are set in contrast to angels (Rev. 5:11). The term presbiteros (elder) is never used of angels in the Torah. The word denotes maturity and growth. Holy angels could not be designated with this term because they were all created at the same time. The only plausible explanation of the twenty-four elders is, that they represent 24 of the most holy humans that exist.
In Yahwshua's love, your servant and brother,